R2I Club Member Hangout

Dems have hopes for 2028 since JD Vance is the most likely candidate, and he is a snake oil salesman who can't and won't look rough and tough. It's time for Dems to groom a candidate who is as brash as Trump and as repetitive as Bernie that parrots only about middle-class economy and ignores all the other side issues like abortion, climate change, LGBTQ rights, protecting Europe, being nice to migrants and so on. They can implement policies related to the side issues after they get in. The big question is who can that be?

IMO, the above is the roadmap if Dems want to gain politically but if they're actually bothered about getting the liberal and populist initiatives done, they have a good chance with Trump since in a lot of ways he's a democrat. He won't get support from the freedom caucus in the house for the populist initiatives and Dems can lend him support by cutting deals instead of trying to impeach him for the third time! But I am not holding my breath since they're politicians after all!

Abortion is a winning issue in the mid-terms for Dems since there won't be any known names for the most voters on the ballot.

PS: I will follow the news to make money off of it since the crazy tweets would lead to wild ups and downs in the markets.

Pandemic taketh away and pandemic gives back!
Trump would have easily won in 2020 if not for the pandemic and pandemic related inflation got him back this time.

Well, the unions had the best of times in the last 4 years with lots of pay deals, but egg prices changed their minds in the end.
They don't know what's going to hit them with Musk totally against the unions and working towards large scale automation. It could also provide a huge opening for my mythical Bernie+Trump clone

Keep the posts coming so we can hit our first thousand!

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 8:32 am Dems have hopes for 2028 since JD Vance is the most likely candidate, and he is a snake oil salesman who can't and won't look rough and tough. It's time for Dems to groom a candidate who is as brash as Trump and as repetitive as Bernie that parrots only about middle-class economy and ignores all the other side issues like abortion, climate change, LGBTQ rights, protecting Europe, being nice to migrants and so on. They can implement policies related to the side issues after they get in. The big question is who can that be?

I agree about focusing only on core issues like middle class economy during campaigning. But don't underestimate JD Vance. Many would consider Bill Clinton a snake oil salesman too but people adored him (maybe not today but definitely when he was in active politics). Granted JD is not as charming as Bill, but that may not be such a kneecap.

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 8:32 am IMO, the above is the roadmap if Dems want to gain politically but if they're actually bothered about getting the liberal and populist initiatives done, they have a good chance with Trump since in a lot of ways he's a democrat. He won't get support from the freedom caucus in the house for the populist initiatives and Dems can lend him support by cutting deals instead of trying to impeach him for the third time! But I am not holding my breath since they're politicians after all!

Yep, the odds of it happening are close to zero. Trump is indeed a closet old school Democrat and he even might support some of these agendas BUT the current democratic party serves not it's voters but it's donors. I feel bad (I jest ofcourse) for the donors because they got swindled even more this election cycle. They spent more than a $1 billion (roughly twice the Trump campaign; maybe even higher with SuperPACs), only to get nothing. DNC operators get to keep 15% of it as consultant fees and cushy campaign staff salaries, not to mention other inside dealing practices like running their own polling operations etc. Until the donors force their hand, current Dem leadership will sadly continue with their failed strategies. Dem voter base can scream, kick and make noise but change ain't happening till the donors stop the gravy train.

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 8:32 am Abortion is a winning issue in the mid-terms for Dems since there won't be any known names for the most voters on the ballot.

I don't know about this. I don't think a national abortion ban/limit will happen anytime soon and every state except Deep south already voted to legalize abortion and even in the south it was close. Moreover, the issue became a successful ballot initiative in many elections so people can vote for abortion and also vote any party of their liking.

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 8:32 am PS: I will follow the news to make money off of it since the crazy tweets would lead to wild ups and downs in the markets.

I completely get that and more power to you. I just decided not to subject myself voluntarily to propaganda.

I wouldn't call dems are bound to donors and corrupt since republicans are the same, just wait and watch what Musk gets out of his recent marriage.

For all practical purposes, Trump is a democrat and that's why Dems can't pin him down on policies like trade protectionism, populism, ignoring deficits, avoiding wars (remember Clinton's 'proportionate' retaliations), isolationism but with continued dialog even with perceived adversaries (remember Obama https://www.reuters.com/article/world/o ... BRE82P0JI/, Cuba, Iran etc..,), not openly anti-LGBTQ and so on. You can only pin him down on his character (non-starter with people like Clinton being so popular) and the mythical democracy which of course did not work.

Project 2025 is already springing up now after the elections and hopefully Trump nips it in the bud.

I vividly remember that my first thread in the original forum was how Trump's first term was a lost opportunity since he was uniquely positioned as a half-democrat and could have bullied dissenting republicans to fall in line to invest in infrastructure, fix immigration and so on.
I looked for the 'manuscripts' since it was a pretty long post and saved it first on my computer but could not find them.

In 2016, when Bernie bros and leftie progressives blamed the DNC of rigging the primaries, my view is that they were politically naive and don't really understand how the sausage is made. I also bought into the narrative that was peddled to us - the Dems have to always move to the center to win the election. After 2016, the donors and the Dem elite figured out that populism is taking over America's electorate. Instead of adapting to the changing political climate they came up with the strategy of delegitimization of Trump as a president and it did work for a while. Thanks to COVID, Biden eeked out a win with tiny margins in 2020.

After Biden was elected in 2020, he did enact some populist policies and passed progressive legislation. Then the abortion ruling happened and it gave an excuse for them to abandon it and rely solely on scare mongering to win the midterms. Eventually it ran out of steam. After the midterms a bunch of neocons took over the administration. The donor class is happy because they can continue to rely on social issues to win elections (atleast they thought so), stall legislation etc. The neocons are just happy to be back and start their wars.

Then in 2024, Trump ran the most populist campaign in recent history on the most hard right Republican platform and managed to pull-off the biggest Republican landslide since Ronald Reagan. If the Dems don't adapt now - we're going to be in for a rough couple of decades.

Another BS lie that Dem politicians should give up is this idea that they need to see eye to eye on social issues to work with other legislators. FDR ( a New York liberal) dealt with highly racist Southern Democrats to pass his agenda.

In today's world by telling their constituents in coastal cities that they would never work with socially conservative people like Gaetz/Hawley democratic politicians can kill two birds with one stone. They get to showboat to their voters their how moral and superior they are and also please their donor class by stalling legislation.

Random thoughts

- Biden did not squeak through - he won with the highest ever popular vote and probably better EC margin than what Trump would end up this year

- Trump did not even concede alleging it was rigged that too when his administration was in charge and interfered with the certification process

- It's always difficult for the incumbent to get reelected since shi$ hits the fan from all sides and they will get the blame much like Trump got the blame in 2020. The reelection was easier as long as the economy did not tank, back when the country was less partisan but not anymore.

- Trump is at least partly to blame for the J6 capitol riots and him getting away from prosecution now for that crime does not absolve him of that

- The opinions of the generals, VP and the majority of the cabinet that worked for him, that he's a danger still remains to be seen

- Project 2025 is still a threat to the American way of life

- His advisors were a decent mix of radicals with moderates in 2016, but it does not appear to be so this time.

- Abortion cannot be a state issue regardless of Trump's claims that that's what everyone wanted. Ask the woman in Florida, Texas, Alabama etc.. It's a civil rights issue and should be codified.

- There may not be any Dept of Education, National Hurricane center and many others in a few years

- Tariffs and trade wars are always risky as has been proven multiple times a la great depression

- The poorly educated MAGA that are his biggest supporters are the ones that are going to suffer the most due to his policies

Continuing my grievances with the Democratic Party ...

Look at how many progressive ballot measures passed in 2024 all across the red (some in deep red too) states.

https://www.epi.org/blog/a-review-of-ke ... -measures/

Nebraska & Kentucky voted against subsidizing private schools. Alaska & Missouri voted to increase Minimum Wage. Louisiana voted to create a Workers Bill of Rights. Even if the Dems have a slim chance of winning those states, such agenda remains popular all across the US.

Meanwhile KH ran a campaign whose chief campaign manager David Plouffe, ex-obama aide & an adviser to TikTok, Sr VP at Uber along with Tony West ( BIL to KH & someone who ran the most deceptive anti-labor campaign in CA) the Chief Legal Strategist at Uber. She declined to take any substantial position on any popular issue that voters care about but instead spewed out consultant buzzwords like "opportunity economy".

Yes, the DNC website paid lip service to these issues somewhere on the website. The party controlled the House & Senate from 2021-23 but couldn't even pass a bill (or even try) to increase the Federal Minimum Wage from paltry $7.25/hr. Many socially conservative republicans from the South actually support raising the minimum wage too.

At the start of the KH campaign, we were told she supports anti-price gouging laws and taxing the billionaires on their unrealized capital gains. Later on, Mark Cuban (hand picked by Tony West as her surrogate) goes all around the country stumping that those things will never happen. Towards the end of the campaign she was totally dropped the taxing the billionaires talking point while barely mentioning price gouging.

Simply put the Democratic Party is barely doing anything that people want, so the country falls prey to Right Wing Authoritarian politicians.

Some of my thoughts on this election:

In 2016, I was surprised and disappointed in the result.

In 2024, I was expecting it and I am not surprised and nor do I care. Like Sapporo mentioned, the poor MAGA voters will bear the brunt of this and frankly, I dont care. Personally, I have insulated myself from the consequences of this election.

In game theory, you lose if you are an idealist surrounded by selfishness. Climate change, pandemics, etc its time to stop idealism and look after #1.

Progressives are not much better. Most progressives when they get into high ranking positions behave as cruelly as MAGAtards. Some super progressive friends of mine who had a mental breakdown on election night proudly told me how they laid off people and put many people on PIP because they didnt work overtime.

Society as a whole is moving to a low trust direction. Winner take all and might is right.