R2I Club Member Hangout

WD40

You are most humble person. I do know beyond a certain age, some level of skill is needed and not a whole lot. With the years of experience one gathered, it is possible to scrap through and continue to work. Like wise say, it is not the talent - it is focusing on meaningful things, putting hours behind it and garner all energy towards it. I guess

wd40 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:45 pm

It is just a miracle I have survived and I am able to interact with you fine people who are accomplished NRIs. I am like that hero from Titanic movie who never belonged to Titatic, but somehow got there, lol.

So coming back to your point about "You maybe back in Singapore or other country", lol, my answer to this is beggars cannot be choosers. If I lose my current job, forget Singapore or any other country, I wont find a job anywhere even in India. A lot of much much much more accomplished IT professionals of my age, have been laid off and they are finding it difficult to find a job. I am nowhere close to them in comparison.

Again, just like during the dotcom bust how I used that as an excuse, I am going to use the current job market as being brutal for experienced senior people to find a job, lol.

But truth is I never belonged to IT nor to be in any accomplished career. I just faked it till I made it and now that I have made it, I dont see any reason to continue to fake it.

Good on you. It seems you are saying that you got lucky. Do you agree that it makes you an outlier? Not everyone can be low skilled and make 10+ crore like you did.

If you agree that you are an outlier, do you see why others dont think the way you do? Outlier's thought process will always be different.

Those who have slogged to achieve what you have, have the drive and ambition to seek out more opportunities and insurance policies and think more about the 'what ifs'. A foreign passport is part of that thinking.

Now, if you are arguing that their way of thinking is wrong and that your way of thinking is right, we can argue on that

r2somewhere wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:34 am
Good on you. It seems you are saying that you got lucky. Do you agree that it makes you an outlier? Not everyone can be low skilled and make 10+ crore like you did.

If you agree that you are an outlier, do you see why others dont think the way you do? Outlier's thought process will always be different.

Those who have slogged to achieve what you have, have the drive and ambition to seek out more opportunities and insurance policies and think more about the 'what ifs'. A foreign passport is part of that thinking.

Now, if you are arguing that their way of thinking is wrong and that your way of thinking is right, we can argue on that

I will not argue that my way of thinking is right. I believe there is no right or wrong. There are only consequences for every action we take or we dont take. Those consequences may not seem apparent at this point and we make decisions based on common knowledge or based on what others are doing or have done previously. It is only time that will tell what the consequences will be and they are not limited to us only, they impact the future generation, some 20-30 years from now. I dont know what those consequences will be. I am just asking if people who give up their passport so easily have they thought about the consequences or they just go by some silly passport ranking and visa free access. Passport is not only a travel document, it is also citizenship and right to live in a country. OCI gives that right, currently, to live in India, but end of the day, OCI is just a visa.

I value the right to live as much more important than the right to travel. The visa free travel is good only for 3 months. I know US passport holders can pretty much show up anywhere, including Europe and they will be given 3 months visa free stay. But that is about it. It is not like you will be allowed to work in Europe. If you want to work in Europe the documentation is pretty much the same whether you have US passport or Indian passport. People make it a huge deal about visa free travel, to me it is no big deal, unless you are a big time traveller or you work in a high-fi Mc Kinsey kind of company which requires frequent global travel. I value my right to live in India as much much more critical and for that I wouldnt take the risk of living on an OCI.

@wd40 - let me flip this around! I need a passport to prove that I am an American and to ensure I won't be thrown out. (Renewal of GC costs as much as getting a USC and GC is not the same as citizenship) No such things are needed in India. I look like an Indian, I walk like an Indian and I talk like an Indian (as long as I avoid the list of things listed by @Lakshaya in the original forum, that are giveaway signs of NRIs)

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:33 pm @wd40 - let me flip this around! I need a passport to prove that I am an American and to ensure I won't be thrown out. (Renewal of GC costs as much as getting a USC and GC is not the same as citizenship) No such things are needed in India. I look like an Indian, I walk like an Indian and I talk like an Indian (as long as I avoid the list of things listed by @Lakshaya in the original forum, that are giveaway signs of NRIs)

This is fine if you entire financial assets everything is US domiciled and you are treating India like a tourist destination. I am talking about people who close everything in the US(other any other country where they acquired passport) and move back to India for good. Have their entire financial life in India and need to work in India and actually live and transact in India.

Countries like Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia, dont have the concept of OCI. They treat all their former citizens like traitors and treated in the same way as other foreigners. India has OCI, but OCI is a visa. Visa can be taken away. Only passport is the real thing. For people who are all set in their adopted country, then it is not a problem.

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:33 pm @wd40 - let me flip this around! I need a passport to prove that I am an American and to ensure I won't be thrown out. (Renewal of GC costs as much as getting a USC and GC is not the same as citizenship) No such things are needed in India. I look like an Indian, I walk like an Indian and I talk like an Indian (as long as I avoid the list of things listed by @Lakshaya in the original forum, that are giveaway signs of NRIs)

I would flip this around right back and ask you this question; lets say hypothetically, your OCI is taken away and you are in India would be you okay to go back to your country of citizenship and live there forever? If the answer is yes, then by all means, give up the Indian passport and treat OCI like a visa of convinience.

To me, if suddenly all flights were to disappear and if I were told that I have to live the rest of my life in Singapore and wont be allowed to go back to India. I will go mad. But if the opposite happened, if I were in India and all flights were stopped and I was told, I am not allowed to move out of India. I am absolutely cool. In fact, after moving to India, I am not even looking forward to board any overseas flights. India is big enough for me to travel and live.

wd40 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:47 pm

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:33 pm @wd40 - let me flip this around! I need a passport to prove that I am an American and to ensure I won't be thrown out. (Renewal of GC costs as much as getting a USC and GC is not the same as citizenship) No such things are needed in India. I look like an Indian, I walk like an Indian and I talk like an Indian (as long as I avoid the list of things listed by @Lakshaya in the original forum, that are giveaway signs of NRIs)

This is fine if you entire financial assets everything is US domiciled and you are treating India like a tourist destination. I am talking about people who close everything in the US(other any other country where they acquired passport) and move back to India for good. Have their entire financial life in India and need to work in India and actually live and transact in India.

Countries like Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia, dont have the concept of OCI. They treat all their former citizens like traitors and treated in the same way as other foreigners. India has OCI, but OCI is a visa. Visa can be taken away. Only passport is the real thing. For people who are all set in their adopted country, then it is not a problem.

Interesting topic to discuss today since as of today the number of years I have been in the US surpasses the number of years in India!

Home is where well, one sets up their home, raise a family and build relationships with friends. It's not some random place in India just because it's cheap to live there. I have not personally met a single USC who has permanently moved to India - Some do long term relocation either to take care of ageing parents or to 'shield' their coming-of-age kids from a phoren culture. Even those that move permanently to India, they seldom erase their financial foot print in the US including those that were on H1/L1 - heck, we don't even erase financial footprint in India, and we go there once every couple of years.

I am pretty sure that the feeling of 'home' was the reason behind all those people that moved from India even back in 1850s, they stayed back where they built their families. We can also include all those Tamils that moved to Singapore/Malaysia and acquired citizenship when it was possible. Their future generations most likely would not have even visited India even though they may be following Indian rituals and customs at home. In fact, I met a few of them in Guyana and Trinidad on my recent trip. All this R2I stuff is only with the first-generation immigrants and India becomes more of a whimsical place for the next generations.

BTW, I didn't make any of thiese rules, it's the just the way it is.

You're talking about countries that don't have long term visas - there are 66 countries that allow dual citizenship with the US without creating any "loyalty" issues. A lot of my friends didn't get OCI for their kids since it's a lengthy process and only have long term visas.

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:46 pm

wd40 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:47 pm

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:33 pm @wd40 - let me flip this around! I need a passport to prove that I am an American and to ensure I won't be thrown out. (Renewal of GC costs as much as getting a USC and GC is not the same as citizenship) No such things are needed in India. I look like an Indian, I walk like an Indian and I talk like an Indian (as long as I avoid the list of things listed by @Lakshaya in the original forum, that are giveaway signs of NRIs)

This is fine if you entire financial assets everything is US domiciled and you are treating India like a tourist destination. I am talking about people who close everything in the US(other any other country where they acquired passport) and move back to India for good. Have their entire financial life in India and need to work in India and actually live and transact in India.

Countries like Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia, dont have the concept of OCI. They treat all their former citizens like traitors and treated in the same way as other foreigners. India has OCI, but OCI is a visa. Visa can be taken away. Only passport is the real thing. For people who are all set in their adopted country, then it is not a problem.

Interesting topic to discuss today since as of today the number of years I have been in the US surpasses the number of years in India!

Home is where well, one sets up their home, raise a family and build relationships with friends. It's not some random place in India just because it's cheap to live there. I have not personally met a single USC who has permanently moved to India - Some do long term relocation either to take care of ageing parents or to 'shield' their coming-of-age kids from a phoren culture. Even those that move permanently to India, they seldom erase their financial foot print in the US including those that were on H1/L1 - heck, we don't even erase financial footprint in India, and we go there once every couple of years.

Just like SAPPORO, I’ve spent more years in the U.S. compared to India, and I don’t know anyone with a U.S. passport who has permanently moved to India. Yes, there are always outliers, but that’s not the normal practice. I’ve had a U.S. passport for a long time, and I didn’t get it for traveling the world or because it’s a strong passport—it just happened naturally. I got it late purely because of my laziness. I came to this country with a green card, so I could’ve gotten U.S. citizenship in five years.

Because of this same laziness, I still don’t have an OCI card, and my entire family uses visitor visas. I might get an OCI later in life. I can’t speak for other countries, but a large part of the Indian population here has accepted America as their home, including those who came after 2000.

If you spend a certain number of years outside the country, and once you’re past your 40s, it’s hard to make new friends in India. Your wavelength might not match with your extended family and old friends, which is the case for me. So, apart from visiting your parents, there’s little motivation to go back to India. Kids, too, tend to lose interest in visiting India once they hit high school. At least on the East Coast, they usually have a large Indian circle, so in the future, they might be like Guyanese Indians—following all the rituals but without any direct connection to India.

From what I’ve seen in my extended family, many start spending their winters in India after retiring, usually from November to April, as long as their health allows. I’m thinking of doing the same, spending time in my hometown and the area where my spouse and I grew up. Beyond that, the rest of my city and India hold little value for me.

Coincidently found this on twitter today:

wd40 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:51 pm

SAPPORO wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:33 pm @wd40 - let me flip this around! I need a passport to prove that I am an American and to ensure I won't be thrown out. (Renewal of GC costs as much as getting a USC and GC is not the same as citizenship) No such things are needed in India. I look like an Indian, I walk like an Indian and I talk like an Indian (as long as I avoid the list of things listed by @Lakshaya in the original forum, that are giveaway signs of NRIs)

I would flip this around right back and ask you this question; lets say hypothetically, your OCI is taken away and you are in India would be you okay to go back to your country of citizenship and live there forever? If the answer is yes, then by all means, give up the Indian passport and treat OCI like a visa of convinience.

To me, if suddenly all flights were to disappear and if I were told that I have to live the rest of my life in Singapore and wont be allowed to go back to India. I will go mad. But if the opposite happened, if I were in India and all flights were stopped and I was told, I am not allowed to move out of India. I am absolutely cool. In fact, after moving to India, I am not even looking forward to board any overseas flights. India is big enough for me to travel and live.

This is an interesting hypothetical question. But even if OCI was to be taken away, I don't think India door is closed for an NRI. He can become indian citizen based on "An Overseas Citizen of India (OCI) can apply for Indian citizenship after being registered as an OCI for five years and residing in India for one year out of those five years, according to Section 5(1)(g) of the Citizenship Act, 1955; essentially, an OCI can transition to full Indian citizenship by meeting this residency requirement.", and only eventuality that is problematic is if "India bans any Visa for American citizen", which is very unlikely, Even then, being born and lived in India for many years, "An NRI (Non-Resident Indian) born in India can acquire Indian citizenship by applying for "Citizenship by Registration" under the Indian Citizenship Act, 1955, which typically requires them to demonstrate a period of residency in India, usually for at least seven years, before applying; essentially meaning they need to live in India for a significant duration to become a full citizen again." "Regarding all flights were banned" question, I presume majority of NRI's (at least those who are married and with children) may not mind being stranded in USA for ever.