Page 1 of 1
r2i for FIRE
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:46 am
by social
I have spoken to some people who r2i'd since they achieved certain financial level where they could've FIRE'd in India but if they continued in US, they won't have a choice but to work another 15 years since health insurance/property tax and other basic expenses takes a huge amount from your corpus. There are probably other FIRE forums but I want to get people's thoughts more specifically towards r2i with FIRE in mind and who has done that or who is thinking about that for that reason. Also, want to learn from people on how they approached it, and what's their lifestyle goals and if possible, some numbers on what constitutes a good number to retire in India.
Re: r2i for FIRE
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 12:07 am
by Srini234
FIRE is a NOT a phenomenon for someone like me not thought through it clearly. 500k college education for 2 kids and 1 to 2 crore as marriage expenses is possibly one need to stash it plus or minus.
The biggest question staring at me when I retire and move to India, I need a 4 to 5 hours job to keep the mind active between 60 to 70. If someone has figured all the above ones and knew how to manage their time they are smart folks
Re: r2i for FIRE
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 11:24 am
by Returning_Indian
There is no number. It all depends on your lifestyle choices. Some Indians on YT say 20cr, some 50cr. I think once your kids graduate, your house and car is paid off, kid marriages done then expenses in India are not much. I would hazard a guess of 1lakh per month. Now add your travel, socializing expenses etc to be another 1lakh a month. Add healthcare of 50k per month or more on average. So 2.5lakh is minimum I think. That is 30lakhs per annum. Withdrawal of 4% demands corpus of 7.5cr. around 1million dollars. Depending on your age you could bank on social security amount to some extent and that would reduce the need of big corpus.
Re: r2i for FIRE
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 12:49 pm
by old-spice2
Returning_Indian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 11:24 am
There is no number. It all depends on your lifestyle choices. Some Indians on YT say 20cr, some 50cr. I think once your kids graduate, your house and car is paid off, kid marriages done then expenses in India are not much. I would hazard a guess of 1lakh per month. Now add your travel, socializing expenses etc to be another 1lakh a month. Add healthcare of 50k per month or more on average. So 2.5lakh is minimum I think. That is 30lakhs per annum. Withdrawal of 4% demands corpus of 7.5cr. around 1million dollars. Depending on your age you could bank on social security amount to some extent and that would reduce the need of big corpus.
I agree, $1M in liquid savings plus a fully paid off house (in India) is more than enough considering you can get up to $2K/month in SS. But one drawback is if you FIRE earlier than 60-65, then your SS payment will be less.
If you have a paid off apartment in city like BLR, then $1K per month is enough - that is close to INR 82K. Stash away 25L in FD for big medical expenses. You are not going to fall sick every month to keep 50k/month when you retire early in 40s or 50s.
Real medical bills start showing up after 60+ for average folks. Do exercise, eat healthy/less and you will be fine. $1K per month does not include any discretionary expenses like eating out or travel as they vary from person to person. 10-12L INR ($12K) per annum is more than enough.
Your $1M savings will generate $80k per year (before taxes) and you can easily spend $12K from that earning without fear of running out of money.
Re: r2i for FIRE
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:05 pm
by dicky_bird
agree, it depends on lifestyle and where you live. Having paid off house and big ticket will give relief during retirement years.
60% of expenses maybe covered for most average lifestyles with occasional eating out and travel national and international for a couple
Passing time in retirement p, how healthy one will be all unknowns, some people are good with not feeling bored if not working but some will find it challenging.
Re: r2i for FIRE
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 10:59 am
by wd40
I think the whole idea of FIRE is not about early retirement. But it is about being ready to retire early. It is like owning nuclear weapons doesnt mean you have to use. But if you own nuclear weapons and tell people you wont use it, that doesnt work. You must own nuclear weapons and tell people that you will use it if necessary.
So FIRE is about FU money, watch this iconic video
https://youtu.be/XamC7-Pt8N0?si=oJqOlRBKsHn1rWjf
So basically FIRE is about getting to the financial level as well as the mental level to really walk away and not having to work for money.
Once you reach that FU level, it is your fortress of solitude from which you can then do whatever you want. Most likely you will find something to do that also pays you enough.
I have reached that FU level with 11cr networth. My plan is to move back to Bangalore next year and try to continue my current role WFH on Indian contractor payroll. It may or may not happen, but I dont care I have reached the FU level, so I will figure out.
Re: r2i for FIRE
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 9:22 pm
by SAPPORO
wd40 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 10:59 am
I think the whole idea of FIRE is not about early retirement. But it is about being ready to retire early. It is like owning nuclear weapons doesnt mean you have to use. But if you own nuclear weapons and tell people you wont use it, that doesnt work. You must own nuclear weapons and tell people that you will use it if necessary.
So FIRE is about FU money, watch this iconic video
https://youtu.be/XamC7-Pt8N0?si=oJqOlRBKsHn1rWjf
So basically FIRE is about getting to the financial level as well as the mental level to really walk away and not having to work for money.
Once you reach that FU level, it is your fortress of solitude from which you can then do whatever you want. Most likely you will find something to do that also pays you enough.
I have reached that FU level with 11cr networth. My plan is to move back to Bangalore next year and try to continue my current role WFH on Indian contractor payroll. It may or may not happen, but I dont care I have reached the FU level, so I will figure out.
FIRE is FIRE! Not retiring early, is only FI/FU
Re: r2i for FIRE
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2024 10:12 am
by wd40
SAPPORO wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 9:22 pm
FIRE is FIRE! Not retiring early, is only FI/FU
I agree, personally I dont want to commit to anything, why should we? One day I feel like retiring, the next day I may get bored.
Hence, I like the idea of Coast FI, you have enough to not worry about retirement. But you dont have any plans to utilise your time.
So we can try a relaxed job, we have nothing to lose kind of attitude, which you get when you have FU money.
Chances are we will find interesting work to do, when we make money secondary. For example, my age/skill/experience people might be asking for 60L. I will be okay with 35L, so I am kind of low balling as long as I get good work culture and a nice work environment. The people who are high achievers and ambitious will not settle for anything lower than 60L but companies may not be able to afford those people. So it is kind of a win win.
Re: r2i for FIRE
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2024 3:00 pm
by SAPPORO
wd40 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2024 10:12 am
SAPPORO wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2024 9:22 pm
FIRE is FIRE! Not retiring early, is only FI/FU
I agree, personally I dont want to commit to anything, why should we? One day I feel like retiring, the next day I may get bored.
Hence, I like the idea of Coast FI, you have enough to not worry about retirement. But you dont have any plans to utilise your time.
So we can try a relaxed job, we have nothing to lose kind of attitude, which you get when you have FU money.
Chances are we will find interesting work to do, when we make money secondary. For example, my age/skill/experience people might be asking for 60L. I will be okay with 35L, so I am kind of low balling as long as I get good work culture and a nice work environment. The people who are high achievers and ambitious will not settle for anything lower than 60L but companies may not be able to afford those people. So it is kind of a win win.
AFAIK, it's extremely difficult for a 45+ year old to get a low stress IT Job in India.
Be that as it may, I FIREd in Apr 2020 for exactly the opposite reason of coast FI that involves lowballing oneself in exchange for time. I knew whatever I did the differential money I was going to make by continuing to work is not going to change my lifestyle that much. I was not going to go make enough to go on private jets and buy small islands or buy a mansion in Malibu. The maximum probably I could to was to fly first class, which I can do even now with round-the-world that includes 40K miles of flying in first class for a year costing around 25k.
Ironically, due to Trump's massive money-printing resulting in inflation and Joe-Jay's soft landing my net worth has tripled since I FIREd and I still fly economy and that's where the Desi upbringing comes into play