Post retirement life in India

[wd40]

Everyone can live where they want to if they have decided - this is just a discussion for the undecideds. I have decided to live/retire in the US unless and until I am kicked out and the India visits would be infrequent in the future as well. Unfortunately, all notions about India have evaporated on this visit for me.

In my opinion, once money is not an issue anymore, the main factor that decides where you want to live is based on relationships and family/people connections, language, culture etc. It is not based on whether restaurant is costly or real estate is costly, for heavens sake you are probably wealthier than most people in the neighbourhood you are right now in India. Unless a person has no family or people connections so they are open to live anywhere, then the criteria of evaluation is different.

I understand you are much older than me and you have lived much longer in the US and setup your entire life there, it is natural you dont want to go back to India. This is similar to people from our parents generation who left their village and went to Bombay after their matriculation. Now they visit their village once in a while, but there is nobody there really to go back to, even then the village cost of living has gone up and probably doesnt offer the same lifestyle as Bombay. But there are people who have relatives in the village and have their ancestoral land there and they go back and live their retired life in the village. So this same analogy applies to US vs India.

[mcr]

I have decided to live/retire in the US unless and until I am kicked out and the India visits would be infrequent in the future as well.

Completely understandable. I think most people who lived in the US as long as you have would do the same. I came back to India after living in the US after less than 10 years, so it was very easy for me to adjust back to living in India. I have a sibling, few cousins and a few classmates/friends who are in the US for the past 25+ years and I have not seen anyone planning to come back to India full time or part time. All of them are set to live the rest of their lives in the US, except one fellow who is a 'political' type person who has a lot of connections and investments in India. He and his wife have a fully furnished apartment here where they spend few months every year while their kids are in the US. To be able to do that you have to have a lot of social network in India and for that you have to have a certain type of personality. Other than him everyone else in my known circle in the US, they are there for good and they seem to have no regrets or second thoughts on that. Not having the regret and being content where ever we are is all that matters I guess.

[desi4ever]

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Unfortunately, all notions about India have evaporated on this visit for me.

Oh SAPPRO saar , wat happened ??

If there is anyone with a positive attitude (with glass always full )among us grumpy NRIs it was you! Care to explain ?

[teera]

Everyone can live where they want to if they have decided - this is just a discussion for the undecideds. I have decided to live/retire in the US unless and until I am kicked out and the India visits would be infrequent in the future as well. Unfortunately, all notions about India have evaporated on this visit for me.

From your recent posts, it appears you are not having a very good visit to India, especially in Bengaluru. That’s too bad. India and Bengaluru in particular, have a plethora of issues. The skyrocketed RE prices and worsened traffic situation are there for everyone to see. But to say India is headed down Guyana way is a tad far-fetched.

I have spent over 4 months in Bengaluru and just returned to the US. My experience has been quite to the contrary. Bengaluru continues to cater to a wide spectrum of socio-economic groups of people over a variety of offerings. My overall experience ranging from healthcare system, selling a property, interactions with relatives and friends, food, planning and executing a wedding among other things, have been positive. I plan to spend more time in India in the coming years. For the record, I do cross streets on my own and drive in India. I have many friends in the US who choose to do neither. That doesn’t define the place, rather our level of comfort and willingness to do those things.

Ultimately one must choose a base that caters to the individual’s interests and sensibilities. To each his own, no judgments to be made either way.

Since the topic of proximity and dependence/lack thereof on children for aging parents has cropped up in this thread and is very relevant to retiring folk, my take is that it is completely on the first-generation immigrant parents to plan for their sunset years wherever that may be, without factoring in any financial/physical/emotional help from children. Any such help would only be a bonus. Any thoughts to the contrary, and the joke will likely be on us (parents).

[SAPPORO]

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Unfortunately, all notions about India have evaporated on this visit for me.

Oh SAPPRO saar , wat happened ??

If there is anyone with a positive attitude (with glass always full )among us grumpy NRIs it was you! Care to explain ?

Good question for me to introspect as well! what changed? I was never going to retire in India anyways but what made me think of even drastically cut down the visits?

I usually have mini vacations either in Europe or India before getting into the 'battlefield', with the only purpose of getting over the jetlag by having a couple of nights of good sleep away from all the hustle and bustle. I did not do it this time and so I had a week-long jet lag. It may have been an initial contributing factor.

The only city I am comfortable with in India in terms of weather is Bangalore and it was a big disappointment. Its population has increased by 1.5 million or 10-12% since the last time I visited in 2022. The traffic and consequently honking is horrendous 24/7 and everywhere you see hundreds of people waiting on the side of the road for something or the other, the latest craze being Rameshwaram Cafe! I also made the mistake of sitting on the front passenger seat and my jaws dropped every time the driver just missed hitting the pedestrians that are walking on the streets since there is no footpath.
The frustrated drivers just drive past them fast with the only assumption that the pedestrians are going to continue to walk in a straight line - if the pedestrians veer to the right by an inch for some reason, they would be toast.

I cannot even complete my daily 12K steps since there is no footpath in most places. One needs to shell multiple crores to live in a community where they can have a decent walk.

Another major issue is the inflation. yes, I can get some reasonably priced food if I am willing to jostle with many others. I am done with jostling, and it reminds me of when my family depended on ration shops, and I used to wait in line for hours to get rice and palm oil and why would I want to go back to where I started after all these years. Last night I had a dinner in a decent restaurant https://www.24thmain.com/ and the bill was 2.5K for four of us and we did not even have any soft or hard drinks. I am sure everyone is in agreement that to maintain the same standard of living in the US, one has to shell out at least half of the US rates. India is no longer a cheap place as it used to be where the almighty dollar went a long way. I would rather take the money somewhere and have a real vacation and not a chore!

Another dealbreaker is the general insensitivity to others. Even if you pay 25K per night to stay in a palace hotel, you are not immune from noise of the wedding festivities that goes well into the night. You cannot do anything about it since almost all palace hotels get their major revenue from weddings in Jaipur and Udaipur. The music was so loud, and it was shaking the windows as if a hurricane was passing thru and we were staying on the sixth floor!

I am having dental crowns replaced now. It was weird that dentist determined what needs be done by just looking at a single mouth x-ray. In the US I am used to multiple x-rays and dentist examining and poking at each and every tooth to determine the same. Another weird thing was dentist himself was negotiating and fixing the cost for the procedure. We have to remove our shoes, but the instruments have not been cleaned in a while and the entre facility would have been shut down if it were in the US. The junior dentists lack professionalism were making fun of the lead doctor while they were working on my teeth. Yesterday, a junior dentist dropped the crown on to the floor and probably would have dusted it and implanted it if I was not watching. They have asked me to come back today and not sure if it is a new one or a one that fell on the floor It's not some random dentist either and he came with a lot of recommendations from my extended family.

Another personal reason is that I don't miss India that much anymore since I have moved from a place in NJ with only a few Indian neighbors to one in Tampa with every other neighbor being Indian. I also have my MIL living with us now in the US and she makes authentic Indian food every day.

Being able to drive in India is by far the biggest reason one can be comfortable since it gives every day small victories of inching forward in traffic, a skill that I sorely lack.

It looks like the Guyana comment hit a nerve. I was there in Guyana and that's why I mentioned it and did not randomly pick countries like Zimbabwe. Aspiring to be like Guyana is not necessarily a bad thing. Its GDP per capita is 10 times that of India and the inflation is very reasonable, but the COL is very high due to recent booms.

[wd40]

As I have always insisted, the biggest (only?) bang for the buck one gets for retiring in India is IF one rents a place instead of buying since RE prices have been inflated by NRIs/speculators that may never live there and have a lot of vacant units.

Why would you want to live in a rental when you have money? How is that making any sense? Do you not like to own your place, customize it as per your standard, decorate it etc etc. that's the whole point of making money. Not to mention having to deal with landlord and their nuances. I can understand if one doesn't have money then they dont have a choice. But why are you looking for bang on the buck when it comes to your comfort and convenience and if this is something you will do on regular basis.

Having lived in both rental and my own in India, I will never choose to live on rental. Infact, I didn't even give my own property on rent while I was in UK. I want to own my own place, live in it whenever I come back, keep things my way. In addition, property appreciates minimum by 10-15% and you save 4-5% on rent. So you are looking at 15-20% appreciation on capital. But regardless of capital appreciation, this is something I just want do not want to compromise on.

Moreover, it's essential for NRIs to have a house in India so they can have roots here and their kids can somewhat be connected. Otherwise for them India is just as exotic as for any American. But I guess it all depends on how one views India and how strong their own preferences are to live here. I once met a professor who visited India only 3 times after he left at young age and eventually retired in US. His kids had never seen India. Ofcourse for such people it doesn't make any sense. I suppose it's all about personal choice.

I just want to come back to this post. Tell me honestly, the type of globe trotter you are, how long are you likely to stay in that own house of yours? In your working life, because of how driven you are in your career, I see that you will keep moving from one place to another and you give you career so much importance, you will keep working until 60, you have no clue where you will be working. Also, eventually, in case you come back and plan to settledown, high chances, you would have outgrown your house and you housing needs would have changed.

I think beyond the psychological and novelty factor, having an own house for a person like you especially, is not a good idea. If you parents have their own house, I already see that as a base, you can come back to during vacations or India visits etc.

[RBee]

I just want to come back to this post. Tell me honestly, the type of globe trotter you are, how long are you likely to stay in that own house of yours? In your working life, because of how driven you are in your career, I see that you will keep moving from one place to another and you give you career so much importance, you will keep working until 60, you have no clue where you will be working. Also, eventually, in case you come back and plan to settledown, high chances, you would have outgrown your house and you housing needs would have changed.

I think beyond the psychological and novelty factor, having an own house for a person like you especially, is not a good idea. If you parents have their own house, I already see that as a base, you can come back to during vacations or India visits etc.

I agree with you and agree with RI too.

It is nice to have your own home but at what cost?
When I was sure to R2I more than a decade back, I bought an apartment in BLR. But it lacked modern amenities like swimming pool, club house, gym etc. With all taxes/stamp duty/broker’s fee etc it cost me $70K.
Now it might sell for double of what I bought but with US$ to INR conversion, fees, taxes, agent commission etc, I will probably make a loss.
It was rented partially for few years but after each new renter, repaint/repair/appliance replacement etc, the rent didn’t earn me money. Now it is closed and only the paid personnel open it for cleaning, so it doesn’t remain smelly/moldy.

Do I like staying in Hotel if my stay is more than a month?No. But do I stay in this old apartment when I go, no either.
Having an apt in BLR allows me to say I have a property in India too, yeah sentimentally but for all practical purpose, it is a dead investment.

[SAPPORO]

Something that NRI retirees should consider is "support to seniors". Most of my/DW's uncles and aunts are in their late 80s/early 90s and not only them but even their children are in their 60s - all of them require some level of support like taking them to hospitals, which a typical NRI is not prepared for. Forget NRIs, even locals like my DW's cousin who is 60 and recently retired is busy all day with this since he is the youngest of all the old people!

[Returning_Indian]

Something that NRI retirees should consider is "support to seniors". Most of my/DW's uncles and aunts are in their late 80s/early 90s and not only them but even their children are in their 60s - all of them require some level of support like taking them to hospitals, which a typical NRI is not prepared for. Forget NRIs, even locals like my DW's cousin who is 60 and recently retired is busy all day with this since he is the youngest of all the old people!

there are startups and services from hospital available who do this for you. They pick/drop the patient for an appointment, procedures, medical care, physio/doctors/nurses come to home. This is quite an old concept now as it started 10-12yrs back. I think there was a startup from Bangalore who started this or maybe Maharashtra, cant remember. This is saturated field now as there are too many players, especially hospitals themselves doing it. I remember uber had collaborated with many healthcare providers during wuhan virus and it was a functionality in their app.

But if you go to any CGHS clinic (for retired govt servants), you will find it to be full of seniors. It has become more of a hangout adda than a clinic. These oldies have all the time in the world and they just come there to chitchat. Some of them even plan their visits so they can just show up together. Ofcourse all their treatment and medicines are free, so it just bloody amazing. As a taxpayer it just infuriates me. First they made bucket load in corruption and now they get medical treatment for free. Here I have to pay 60-70% income to govt without anything in return. No medical care for me when I grow older. I will have to manage on my own.

[SAPPORO]

Something that NRI retirees should consider is "support to seniors". Most of my/DW's uncles and aunts are in their late 80s/early 90s and not only them but even their children are in their 60s - all of them require some level of support like taking them to hospitals, which a typical NRI is not prepared for. Forget NRIs, even locals like my DW's cousin who is 60 and recently retired is busy all day with this since he is the youngest of all the old people!

there are startups and services from hospital available who do this for you. They pick/drop the patient for an appointment, procedures, medical care, physio/doctors/nurses come to home. This is quite an old concept now as it started 10-12yrs back. I think there was a startup from Bangalore who started this or maybe Maharashtra, cant remember. This is saturated field now as there are too many players, especially hospitals themselves doing it. I remember uber had collaborated with many healthcare providers during wuhan virus and it was a functionality in their app.

I was referring to the emotional support and not just arranging a cab to get to their medical appointments!