The Grass Is Always Greener

[nodegree]

I think I've always had this syndrome, but only recently did I realize it - The Grass Is Greener on the other side. It's probably even the reason I emigrated out of India in the first place and now on a R2I stint (might come to a pause soon). The following phrases are contradictory but I've said them both depending on my mood/context/location.

I like the spontaneity in India (while in US) <:=:> The chaos and madness is driving me crazy (while in India)
Life in US is very monotonous (while in US) <:=:> Everything in the US is so orderly and reliable (while in India)
I want my kids to learn language & culture (while in US) <:=:> There are advantages in being a native English speaker (while in India)
I want to be close to family (while in US) <:=:> I want to be far far away from family (while in India)
I don't think I will ever have a sense of belonging (while in US) <:=:> I don't think I will ever have a sense of belonging (while in India)
I like how involved everyone is India (while in US) <:=:> I NEED MY PRIVACY GODDAMIT (while in India)
I'm fed up with the racism here (while in US) <:=:> Did he just ask what my caste is?? (while in India)
Money isn't everything, it's the people you care about (while in US) <:=:> F*ckn fed up with these people, I just need to GTFO and earn them big bucks (while in India)

End of the day I think I'm equally happy & unhappy in either US or India. I like them for a certain reason and also hate them for the same reason.

[r2somewhere]

I think I've always had this syndrome, but only recently did I realize it - The Grass Is Greener on the other side. It's probably even the reason I emigrated out of India in the first place and now on a R2I stint (might come to a pause soon). The following phrases are contradictory but I've said them both depending on my mood/context/location.

I like the spontaneity in India (while in US) <:=:> The chaos and madness is driving me crazy (while in India)
Life in US is very monotonous (while in US) <:=:> Everything in the US is so orderly and reliable (while in India)
I want my kids to learn language & culture (while in US) <:=:> There are advantages in being a native English speaker (while in India)
I want to be close to family (while in US) <:=:> I want to be far far away from family (while in India)
I don't think I will ever have a sense of belonging (while in US) <:=:> I don't think I will ever have a sense of belonging (while in India)
I like how involved everyone is India (while in US) <:=:> I NEED MY PRIVACY GODDAMIT (while in India)
I'm fed up with the racism here (while in US) <:=:> Did he just ask what my caste is?? (while in India)
Money isn't everything, it's the people you care about (while in US) <:=:> F*ckn fed up with these people, I just need to GTFO and earn them big bucks (while in India)

End of the day I think I'm equally happy & unhappy in either US or India. I like them for a certain reason and also hate them for the same reason.

Solution is midway - Dubai or Europe

[SAPPORO]

Most of us go thru the same syndrome with these 'soft' items. But for me, the hard item of affordability makes India a no-go. Ain't paying millions of dollars just to have access to a community pool, fitness center and stray-dogs free dining and walking trails. I can get the same for 100K USD where I live in the US.

Yes, assisted living is cheap as of now since it's a fledgling industry. Not sure if it would remain that way but definitely it's going to be cheaper than in the US. Worst case, that's always an option. But not going to sacrifice around 30 years of worry-free living for 2 years of end-of-life care.

[Returning_Indian]

Most of us go thru the same syndrome with these 'soft' items. But for me, the hard item of affordability makes India a no-go. Ain't paying millions of dollars just to have access to a community pool, fitness center and stray-dogs free dining and walking trails. I can get the same for 100K USD where I live in the US.

Yes, assisted living is cheap as of now since it's a fledgling industry. Not sure if it would remain that way but definitely it's going to be cheaper than in the US. Worst case, that's always an option. But not going to sacrifice around 30 years of worry-free living for 2 years of end-of-life care.

It will be difficult to stay away from kids. I don't think permanently settling in India is an option for NRIs as kids are in US. Once you are not able to take long flights you will have to settle in US. I doubt anyone else will take care of you in India, other than your kids. Retirement homes in India will likely stay cheaper options for very long time but it's impractical if your kids are in US. One should be pragmatic and plan for expenses related to nursing homes in the US otherwise you will place lot of burden on your kids, financially.

[SAPPORO]

Most of us go thru the same syndrome with these 'soft' items. But for me, the hard item of affordability makes India a no-go. Ain't paying millions of dollars just to have access to a community pool, fitness center and stray-dogs free dining and walking trails. I can get the same for 100K USD where I live in the US.

Yes, assisted living is cheap as of now since it's a fledgling industry. Not sure if it would remain that way but definitely it's going to be cheaper than in the US. Worst case, that's always an option. But not going to sacrifice around 30 years of worry-free living for 2 years of end-of-life care.

It will be difficult to stay away from kids. I don't think permanently settling in India is an option for NRIs as kids are in US. Once you are not able to take long flights you will have to settle in US. I doubt anyone else will take care of you in India, other than your kids. Retirement homes in India will likely stay cheaper options for very long time but it's impractical if your kids are in US. One should be pragmatic and plan for expenses related to nursing homes in the US otherwise you will place lot of burden on your kids, financially.

India RH would be the last resort. My DW's family has good longevity genes on both sides, and she would be my best option Otherwise, there is always the LTC insurance and worst case the full-price payment for a couple of years is manageable with the net worth at that time.

[nodegree]

Most of us go thru the same syndrome with these 'soft' items. But for me, the hard item of affordability makes India a no-go. Ain't paying millions of dollars just to have access to a community pool, fitness center and stray-dogs free dining and walking trails. I can get the same for 100K USD where I live in the US.

Yeah tough pill to swallow i.e. spending that kinda dough to get basic amenities which you get for free in the US. Similar vein, I will have to spend crazy amounts for schooling my kids while the same thing costs effectively zero in the US.

[old-spice2]

Yeah tough pill to swallow i.e. spending that kinda dough to get basic amenities which you get for free in the US. Similar vein, I will have to spend crazy amounts for schooling my kids while the same thing costs effectively zero in the US.

I hope you do not end up like few of my friends who decided to LIA. They are in deep s**** to put it in mild terms.

Here is one case: Father about my age and taken on student loan of two kids ($300K plus). Still carrying mortgage due to high cost in BA. Elder kid (30+) working for a startup but not getting salary for past few months. Stays separately in an apartment and Desi father footing his rent bill. Keeps the heater turned down to save on utility. Cannot hope to retire due to need for insurance. I could quit and move back before 65, poor chap is still working his a** off. Forget about kid taking care of parents, here it is the other way round. And this guy is from top school in India with masters in US. Had he stayed back in India he would have been better off as India values degree from top schools. Now he is like a trishanku - neither here nor there.

If you are like American father who cut off their kids at 18, then you will not be in this position. But most of the first gen parents are not like Americans. Do not under estimate what life will throw at you as you and kids grow older in an alien land/culture.

Another case family moved to US in 1978. The son at 41 still single and stays with parents. May be local dating scene did not work and with lack of AM left to live as single. In India he would have been happily married and made his parents grandparents. In India most people get married unless you want to remain single. So just don't think about school cost but take a look at larger picture of life. Will your kids study well and get into a well paid position, will they remain single forever and so on? One cannot predict what will happen but should be prepared to face such non-financial things.

Outside India professional life is good (education, job, money) but personal life (marriage, kids, family) may get royally screwed. Kids may end up marrying non-Indian and some parents will get heart attack if this happens. One should consider the whole picture instead of trivial stuff like dogs, garbage and traffic. I know friends in Singapore, Dubai and other non-western countries where the life threw a curve ball at them (from kid's perspective). They are all super rich but family life is in tatters, rather you can call it dysfunctional.

[Returning_Indian]

Yeah tough pill to swallow i.e. spending that kinda dough to get basic amenities which you get for free in the US. Similar vein, I will have to spend crazy amounts for schooling my kids while the same thing costs effectively zero in the US.

In US, school area districts with good schools command huge premium in terms of housing costs. So it's not free. You just pay higher property taxes in the areas of good schools. Plus quality of schooling in US, less said the better. It cannot be compared to new age private schools of India. Indian kids in US are doing well primarily because of their helicopter parents. Not much going on by schools. Plus there is problematic dating scene. Browns are at the bottom of the totem pole. Their friends would be whites who are nerds or Asians. It may not matter much to you but for teenagers being popular is most important thing in the world and leads to low self confidence. Unless ofcourse you live in desi ghettos and never have to worry about dealing with Americans.

[SAPPORO]

Yeah tough pill to swallow i.e. spending that kinda dough to get basic amenities which you get for free in the US. Similar vein, I will have to spend crazy amounts for schooling my kids while the same thing costs effectively zero in the US.

I hope you do not end up like few of my friends who decided to LIA. They are in deep s**** to put it in mild terms.

Here is one case: Father about my age and taken on student loan of two kids ($300K plus). Still carrying mortgage due to high cost in BA. Elder kid (30+) working for a startup but not getting salary for past few months. Stays separately in an apartment and Desi father footing his rent bill. Keeps the heater turned down to save on utility. Cannot hope to retire due to need for insurance. I could quit and move back before 65, poor chap is still working his a** off. Forget about kid taking care of parents, here it is the other way round. And this guy is from top school in India with masters in US. Had he stayed back in India he would have been better off as India values degree from top schools. Now he is like a trishanku - neither here nor there.

If you are like American father who cut off their kids at 18, then you will not be in this position. But most of the first gen parents are not like Americans. Do not under estimate what life will throw at you as you and kids grow older in an alien land/culture.

Another case family moved to US in 1978. The son at 41 still single and stays with parents. May be local dating scene did not work and with lack of AM left to live as single. In India he would have been happily married and made his parents grandparents. In India most people get married unless you want to remain single. So just don't think about school cost but take a look at larger picture of life. Will your kids study well and get into a well paid position, will they remain single forever and so on? One cannot predict what will happen but should be prepared to face such non-financial things.

Outside India professional life is good (education, job, money) but personal life (marriage, kids, family) may get royally screwed. Kids may end up marrying non-Indian and some parents will get heart attack if this happens. One should consider the whole picture instead of trivial stuff like dogs, garbage and traffic. I know friends in Singapore, Dubai and other non-western countries where the life threw a curve ball at them (from kid's perspective). They are all super rich but family life is in tatters, rather you can call it dysfunctional.

You're talking to the wrong guy! IIRC, @nodegree not only dated and married a non-Indian and even convinced her to move from the US to India that's almost Imposible with a Desi wife:) AM is from the 'boomer' era and doesn't work anymore and that's why I see my nephews in their early thirties still unmarried whereas my DS if all goes according to plan might get married when he's 25. Not that I consider marriage as the be-all and end-all.

If the adult children need support, parents are better placed to live in a house with a basement in the US rather than living in far-off India. Indian parent psyche is to always consider even their adult children as babies and that feeling not going to go away, and they may have to scramble to move back to the US in such a scenario!

[SAPPORO]

Yeah tough pill to swallow i.e. spending that kinda dough to get basic amenities which you get for free in the US. Similar vein, I will have to spend crazy amounts for schooling my kids while the same thing costs effectively zero in the US.

In US, school area districts with good schools command huge premium in terms of housing costs. So it's not free. You just pay higher property taxes in the areas of good schools. Plus quality of schooling in US, less said the better. It cannot be compared to new age private schools of India. Indian kids in US are doing well primarily because of their helicopter parents. Not much going on by schools. Plus there is problematic dating scene. Browns are at the bottom of the totem pole. Their friends would be whites who are nerds or Asians. It may not matter much to you but for teenagers being popular is most important thing in the world and leads to low self confidence. Unless ofcourse you live in desi ghettos and never have to worry about dealing with Americans.

A vast majority of US public schools are decent and are in low PT jurisdiction since not all states fund their schools using primarily PT. Even in cases where there are additional premiums in housing costs and a high PT, all and more of it would be recovered upon selling the house - not the case with donations and fees paid to expensive private schools in India that are basically down the drain.